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Obama Releases His Long Form Birth Certificate and Big Surprise: The Birthers Still Aren’t Happy

April 27, 2011

As I predicted a few weeks ago, many of the birthers still aren’t happy now that they finally got what they claimed they wanted all along and are busy brainstorming new conspiracy theories:

As predicted, the Birther Taliban are not yet ready to let go of it – and are busy moving the goalposts, according to this reporting by Politico:

Phil Berg, who filed one of the original birther lawsuits, now believes that Obama was adopted by his Indonesian father and lost his US citizenship:

“I think the issue is that he’s not any more natural born. I don’t care if he releases his birth certificate or whatever,” said Berg. “Let’s see his records coming back through immigration”

Orly Taitz, once called ‘Queen of the birthers’ and who was responsible for a number of lawsuits, is verifying the document’s authenticity and now believes that the President is using a false social security number.

None of which is as sexy as “born in Kenya”. But top marks for trying.

10.35am ET: How has the epicentre of birtherism – the swivel-eyed website WorldNetDaily – coping with today’s events? Here’s its lead headline:

White House releases Obama ‘birth certificate’

The “quote marks” say it all.

10.20am ET: With a great sense of timing, earlier this morning I’d blogged on the very subject of Trump, Obama and birtherism, which noted this from a new USA Today/Gallup opinion poll:

[I]n the USA Today poll, only 38% of Americans say Obama definitely was born in the USA, and 18% say he probably was. Fifteen percent say he probably was born in another country, and 9% say he definitely was born elsewhere.

So now they want different records. IT NEVER ENDS. The fact is, people who have a visceral hatred of Barack Obama and who think he’s not quite Caucasian and Christian enough one of us will simply not accept any proof to the countrary. For each new piece of evidence that is put forth, they will claim they need just one more thing. The best thing Obama and the idiotic media can do is just ignore these people b/c there is no rational reason to give them the time of day at this point. Except Fox News of course- they should definitely keep birtherism alive because they’ve never dealt much with facts, so why start now?

What started out as a moderately interesting little Constitutional question has become a dog-whistle for disgruntled crackpots. While some people had a legitimate interest in the legal issue and weren’t motivated by irrational hatred of Obama, some were and took it way too far. If you don’t like a particular President or politician then try to beat him/her at the ballot box and spare us the latest tin-foil hat conspiracy.

And I’m saying this as a Hillary Clinton supporter.

72 Comments leave one →
  1. Thain permalink
    April 27, 2011 12:36 pm

    Thanks for calling this bullsh*t out. I’m not a big Obama fan but this was just getting ridiculous. The fact that some alarming percent of Americans think the guy was born in Kenya is pathetic. Like we aren’t misinformed enough! This is partly the media’s fault for playing up this faux controversy.

    You are right- it still won’t end. As I said, I’m not an Obama fan and I was a supporter of Hillary in 2008 but I never got the whole angry conspiracy thing. My favorite conspiracy theory was from No Quarter- Obama and Larry Sinclair having oral sex in the back of a limo while snorting cocaine- and hundreds of commenters- all Hillary fans- were like “yeah, he’s a closet Muslim and homosexual- not that there’s anything wrong with that“- yeah, right. Of course they think there was something wrong with that- the Muslim part at least.

    Whatever. Let these people hang out at WorldNet Daily and and spin their latest conspiracy.

  2. jeleanoro permalink
    April 27, 2011 12:48 pm

    in all fairness guys…there has always been a laundry list of unanswered questions about Obama…he spent over a million dollars from what I understand to block court cases against Berg, Orly and others for the past few years. The media would never do their jobs and cover any of this until the’Trump’eting started and wouldn’t stop! The education and passport questions are (in my opinion) legitimate issues that should have been answered a long time ago.

    • Thain permalink
      April 27, 2011 12:58 pm

      No, it was revealed that that 2 million dollar figure was not accurate and that the legal funds were NOT all going to fight the birther law suits.

      Keep in mind- and I’m not a lawyer- any time a complaint or official request of some kind like that is filed, the Obama team HAD to respond by law so it wasted a huge amount of time and money doing so and there were TONS of people- not just Orly and Berg, filing suit and wasting everyone’s time.

      I’m not saying the guy is Mr. Transparency but I feel like some people just want something to talk about. As soon as facts show one conspiracy to be based in nothing, these people are on to the next conspiracy.

      Just accept it- the birther nonsense was NONSENSE. THEY WERE ALL WRONG. So now the response is “oh well there are other secrets he’s not telling us about”- Jesus Christ, where does it end?

      So, if you have some new conspiracy about his passport or maybe you think he only got into Harvard through affirmative action (which is essentially what Trump was implying the other day) go to World Net where they traffic in that nonsense.

    • Thain permalink
      April 27, 2011 1:00 pm

      BTW, it’s not the media’s “job” to investigate every conspiracy theory- the media DID look into the birth certificate issue and determined that he was born in the USA. The fact that many of you didn’t like that result is hardly the issue.

      There are people in this country more interested in this birther nonsense than in Mideast peace, the economy, health care and Afghanistan. Most people can’t point to Libya on a map but they can quote all the laws regarding natural born citizenship because of this birther thing. That is truly pathetic.

  3. Tovah permalink
    April 27, 2011 1:06 pm

    Honestly, I agree with Stacy. Enough already. I am not an Obama fan either and I don’t like what he and his team did in 2008 but you know what? I’ve moved on and I can’t spend all my time trying to find some new conspiracy to make him seem illegitimate or make him seem like he didn’t deserve to go to Ivy League schools or that he isn’t American enough or not Christian enough.

    Do you think it’s a coincidence that many of the birthers think not only is he not American, but that he’s a secret Muslim, pro-terrorist, got into school on affirmative action and was part of some crime scheme in Chicago? Is it not ironic that some people are doing to him what was done to the Clintons? There were TONS of conspiracies about Bill and Hillary, each one crazier than the last but those Clinton-haters would never stop! It seems the same way with Obama.

  4. stacyx permalink*
    April 27, 2011 1:32 pm

    It goes without saying that people have a right to focus on whatever they want to focus on but what is frustrating is that the birthers were saying “just show us the long form birth certificate and then that will prove it but you’re failure to do so means something is amiss.” So now, here’s the long-form and naturally, it’s not enough.

    For the record, I think Trumps latest gambit of saying that Obama’s school records need to be released because he didn’t have good enough grades to get into the Ivy League borders on thinly-veiled racism. I think what he is saying is that Obama MUST HAVE BEEN an affirmative action student because how else could he have gotten into the Ivy League? I bet it doesn’t bother Trump that a lot of his friends kids get into Ivy League schools based, in part, on their legacy status or who their parents are.

    I think it’s all a distraction. I agree with Thain in that I wish people were as interested in the details of foreign policy as they were in getting at this birth certificate. And I also agree with Tovah- this is the sort of conspiracy theory and nonsensical hate that was lobbed at the Clintons for 8 years- Vince Foster, Hillary being a carpet-bagger, Whitewater, Filegate, Travelgate, blah, blah blah.

    I don’t take issue with anyone who opposes Barack Obama’s policies- heck, I oppose many of his policies. But it’s almost like some people want to use a short-cut to get him out of office, much like they tried to do with Bill Clinton.

  5. Seamus permalink
    April 27, 2011 2:05 pm

    You Yanks are nuts, LOL! We watch all this unfold from across the pond scratching our heads.

    Stacy- you need a picture of Scooter or Ziggy in a tinfoil hat!

  6. Seamus permalink
    April 27, 2011 2:07 pm

    Uh oh, this was a story in your sidebar on the right:

    Is that true?

    I know that site No Quarter really ran with this story about the birth certificate being a fake.

    • Thain permalink
      April 27, 2011 2:15 pm

      During the primaries I visited the blog No Quarter a lot- I liked it…initially. Then it started getting a little crazy. Not only did they jump on the birther bandwagon but Larry Johnson did that whole thing about the so-called “Whitey Tape”- which was totally race-baiting and of course the tape never materialized. When I posted a comment asking “where’s the tape?” I was banned from the site even though I was a Hillary supporter. They also really believed he was a Muslim and that he was a supporter of terrorist groups and Hamas. I think at times they came across as a tad racist and really played into some people’s fears of black people- to me that’s the only thing that explains the whole Whitey Tape nonsense and also the Muslim-terrorist rumors. Then there was the Larry Sinclair rumor they peddled- the one I reference above about Obama giving Sinclair a blow job in the back of a limo. It was all just too much.

      The best part is that no matter how many of these stories were proved to be totally false, people like Larry Johnson and the bloggers there never seem to get embarrassed or lose their credibility. They just moved onto the next crazy conspiracy. That’s because it’s not about the truth, it’s just about a bunch of people who hate Obama hanging out and making themselves feel superior by claiming he’s some sort of illegitimate fraud. I don’t like Obama but I’m not about to run around claiming he’s some sort of Madrassa-attending, affirmative action, white people-hating, Muslim, anti-Semitic fraud.

      He’s just a politician I don’t really trust and don’t agree with.

    • PYW permalink
      April 28, 2011 5:55 pm

      that makes it sound as if her campaign had something to do with it, which is vastly different than some of her supporters buying into ridiculous conspiracy theories.

  7. Tovah permalink
    April 27, 2011 2:32 pm

    Stacy you crack me up! You are a glutton for punishment! I just saw you posted this on your Facebook wall- you realize that that’s tantamount to blood in the water, right?!? I can’t WAIT to read the responses.

    • stacyx permalink*
      April 27, 2011 2:35 pm

      I know. To be honest though, I can post to Facebook directly from the “Share” button on the bottom of the post so I don’t even really go to Facebook to get involved in the debates because I’ve found that it’s very frustrating to get into Facebook debates. I’m probably one of the few people in the world who spends only about 15 minutes a month on Facebook- I just find that with my blogging and Twitter and of course, my life, I have to prioritize how I spend my time and Facebook isn’t a priority.

      So, you’ll have to let me know if people hate all over me on Facebook for this post 😉

  8. discourseincsharpminor permalink
    April 27, 2011 2:47 pm

    I totally agree. This thing will go on and on. He could release everything from his birth certificate to the last perscription his doctor gave him and many of these birther wingnuts would still be banging their birther drums and writing their birther bills.

    • Thain permalink
      April 27, 2011 5:07 pm

      Yeah, now Trump is talking about Obama releasing his school records because you know, a black man can’t get into Harvard on merit, only with Affirmative Action.

      Trump is an asshole.

  9. Thain permalink
    April 27, 2011 5:18 pm

    Go over to No Quarter and see what they are bitching about now:

    Let the White House Proclaim:

    Happy Hugo Chavez Day!

    Happy Ramadan!

    Happy 100th Anniversary of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire!

    Happy Eid-ul-Fitr

    Happy Earth Day!

    Happy Eid-ul-Adha!

    Happy Nowruz!

    If you are waiting for a Happy Easter Proclamation, though, you’ll have to wait until at least next year, since Obama didn’t bother to do one this year.

    Gee, that must mean Barack Obama is a Muslim. Of course the post is written by that conspiracy nut Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy. Never mind Easter was three days ago, I guess she just woke up from her hateful stupor today. I guess it’s a sad day over on that site now that their bullshit has been exposed with respect to the birth certificate, so time to scare us white folks by fear of a Muslim Planet. Notice they conveniently left out the fact that Obama issued a Passover greeting and had a Seder. Why would they leave that out do you think? Hmmmm….because they are so F*CKING dishonest over there. If they admit he issued a greeting to the Jewish folks then that ruins their whole “he’s a shady Muslim!”

    I guess the Easter Egg roll at the White House wasn’t enough?

    Think about it, what is their point other than to continue to try to paint Obama as Not One of Us- a Muslim. As far as I’m concerned, No Quarter has become very close to a hate website with their rampant Islamaphobia and for some of my fellow Hillary fans who think this kind of BS helps Hillary in some way I’ve got news for you- it doesn’t. If this kind of stuff was written about a Jewish politician people would rightly be denouncing it as thinly-veiled antisemitism.

    Lets see, No Quarter is zero for four- no Whitey tape, no birth certificate fraud, no secret gay love affair with Larry Sinclair and he’s not a Muslim (despite their best efforts at raising that suspicion).

    • Steve permalink
      April 27, 2011 5:25 pm

      I agree, the Islamaphobia is off the charts over there. I noticed after the primaries No Quarter seemed to be more of a GOP site- very pro-Palin, pro-Fox News, pro World Net Daily. Basically it seemed like they hated Obama so much that they went the total other extreme. Never mind the anti-woman aspect of the GOP platform. I’m fascinated by how moderates and even liberals would throw their support behind anti-choice homophobes simply because they hate Obama. Also, Obama has turned out to be quite moderate and even right-leaning on many issues so they are being intellectually dishonest with their caricature of him as some sort of socialist Muslim.

      It’s interesting to me how intolerance and fear gets so much more attention than tolerance and justice. You can have a really good blog that sticks to the facts, is tolerant of different viewpoints and which tries to look at issues from different perspectives and that blog will have a tough time getting page views- I have a friend who started a political blog and he couldn’t get it off the ground. But then you have sites that play to people’s fears and biases and it gets millions of visitors. Larry Johnson’s blog really only took off in a huge way after the whole Whitey tape thing. I guess no one cares that every conspiracy they have come up with has been debunked. There are so many people who just want to find out Obama was a member of the Communist party in college, or that he is a Muslim or that he hates White people (despite his mother being White)- it’s really rather twisted.

  10. stacyx permalink*
    April 27, 2011 5:31 pm

    This is so true- this is all the new conspiracies people have thought up to keep the birther issue going:

    Mickey Kaus calls Barack Obama “”the biggest affirmative action baby in history.”

    Nope, no racism here, move along.

    • Thain permalink
      April 27, 2011 9:30 pm

      Oh, but that’s not racist Stacy! Not EVERYONE who calls Obama “the biggest affirmative action baby in history” is racist! Some people are just really interested in getting to the bottom of this grave injustice! I mean, how dare some black kid named “Hussein” get into Columbia and Harvard instead of some Ling Island blueblood named Avery Pendleton or something!

  11. stacyx permalink*
    April 27, 2011 5:36 pm

    OT: The cost of our wrong-headed Mid-East policies:

    Obama never lived up to the promises in his speech in Cairo and that has had huge ramifications. People in the Middle East feel like they were duped by the POTUS and anti-American sentiment is on the rise because of it. Our supporting despotic dictators in the region to protect our oil interests and our unquestioning support for Israel hasn’t helped. Sadly, there is no sign that the Obama administration has any plans to change course. You know, because elections and all (*cough*)

    • Thain permalink
      April 27, 2011 6:06 pm

      Did you see this?

      I enjoy how only the Palestinians have to abide by Quartet principles and prior agreements- the Israelis don’t have to do any of that.

      Basically this administration screwed this up big time. They are more interested in appeasing certain interest groups than taking political risks for peace. As Israel’s chief rabbi said, if Obama pressures Israel Jews won’t vote for him and he’ll lose in 2012- that pretty much sums things up, even if people like Carolyn want to believe the problem lies somewhere else.

      • April 27, 2011 6:18 pm

        Yeah, I saw that. Well, what did we expect? We keep throwing Abbas under the bus, so why shouldn’t he try to please the people on the street and find their own solution to the conflict. Israel isn’t serious about peace and you noted, Obama is in full reelection mode and won’t do anything but grab his ankles for Bibi out of fear of the Lobby, so I really don’t blame Abbas.

        It’s interesting that all the people who have a kitten at the thought of talking to Hamas, have no problem talking to the Taliban or with the Iranian MEK, which is a terrorist group. It all depends on what Israel approves of. The MEK opposes Ahmadinejad so they are our new best friends, just like Mujahadeen were when we were fighting the Evil Empire (Russia) in Afghanistan in the 80’s. We never learn.

        To be honest, I’m so fed up with our Mideast foreign policy I really have no interest in defending or rationalizing it. So long as the U.S. media keeps Americans as uninformed as possible, nothing will change- for example, how would Americans feel about Israel using “emergency laws” to arrest and indefinitely detain members of the Palestinian nonviolent resistance movement who protest against their houses being bulldozed by the IDF? It would sort of make Israel look, well, bad. Do you think Ethan Bronner would ever talk about this?


  12. April 27, 2011 7:38 pm

    How interesting that a potential deal between Fatah and Hamas is being brokered by Egypt.

    And on the birth issue, I’m no fan of Obama, but I sympathize with him on this one. I was born in another country and grew up in a small town in midwest US in the 70’s and 80’s. Having an unusual name, ethnicity, and brown skin, etc., made that quite an experience. I don’t like the label “xenophobic”, but there are many people in this country (and other countries) who are not comfortable with people who don’t seem like them. Things are a lot better than they were back in the 70’s and 80’s, but that doesn’t mean all those people have changed their mindsets. Resistance to brown skinned people from Asia or Africa didn’t start with 9/11. I think this birth certificate issue is sort of some people’s way of resisting diversity …

  13. Carolyn-Rodham permalink
    April 27, 2011 8:43 pm

    I don’t think we should lump everyone together who had questions about Obama’s status as a natural born citizen and label them racist right-wing nut jobs. I was among them and am not right wing or racist; after years of analysis, I pretty confident I’m not a nut job. I’ll admit that in 2008, after enduring months of Hillary being vilified with one ridiculous and/or sexist accusation after another while Obama was the saintly Teflon Messiah, I would have been thrilled to hear something — anything — that proved the guy doesn’t walk on water. But I wasn’t even aware of any controversy about Obama’s status as a natural born citizen until July, well after Hillary had so graciously
    conceded defeat. The main reason I got stuck on the issue was that Obama wouldn’t release the damn long form. Why not? It made no sense to me then. It makes no sense to me now. The Hawaiian DOH official Ns Fukimo made several statements about having seen the long form — in Nov 08 and July 09 — but didn’t say the magic words until a few weeks ago (that the long form confirmed Obama was born at such-and-such hospital and delivered by Doctor sos-and-so). Why the year and a half delay? What was to be gained by keeping the long form veiled in mystery? Frankly, I’m angry I wasted so much time educating myself about arcane statutes about the status of children born to a US citizen who had not resided in the US for a period of ten years, at least five of which occurred after the ago of 14 BLAH BLAH BLAH…when all Obama needed to do was release the damn long forn.

    And I disagree this will go on and on. Yes, there’s the fringe group that will never give up hunting for dirt on Obama (just like the fringe group that will never give up hunting for dirt on Hillary), but I think the release of the long form puts the issue to rest for many others, including many in the Republican establishment (and FOX news) who — you may have noticed — didn’t dismiss the controversy publicly until very
    recently. It just should have been released two years ago.

    • Carolyn-Rodham permalink
      April 27, 2011 8:47 pm

      Check that — 2 1/2 years ago.

    • stacyx permalink*
      April 27, 2011 9:00 pm

      @carolyn-Nobody is lumping everyone together but the fact is, as usual, the issue was hijacked by the lunatic fringe. I’ve tried to make that clear over and over again- that not everyone interested in the issue was racist or a nutter.

      We’ll just have to agree to disagree b/c this issue will simmer for a while and some are already cooking up another controversy- the school records. Oh, and don’t forget the “Obama is really a Muslim.”

      Rather than blaming Obama for being right, maybe some folks could actually admit they were wrong. I feel sorry for Obama’s kids having to listen to all this.

      But maybe it’s just me- I don’t fit in with thepro-Hillary crowd, as I’m reminded every day on this blog.

    • Thain permalink
      April 27, 2011 9:23 pm

      The self righteous indignation is too much.

      You may not be a crazy, racist winger but can you deny that those folks totally took over the issue?

      Honestly, after a legal short form certified by the State of Hawaii and accepted as LEGAL proof of citizenship by the State Dept was made available it was over as far as I was concerned.

      Now the northers are getting defensive or coming up with new theories. It would be nice if some of the non-racist birth certificate hunters would call out the racists in their midst b/c they took over the issue and sort of made everyone look like dingbats.

      • Carolyn-Rodham permalink
        April 27, 2011 10:41 pm

        Twain, you’re free to disagree with me just as I’m free to disagree with you but let’s agree not to resort to ad hominem snubs — like calling me self-righteous. Not appreciated.

        • Thain permalink
          April 28, 2011 7:16 am

          @Carolyn- first of all my name is Thain, notTwain.

          Secondly, you ARE acting self-righteous. That fact that Obots acted like assholes in 2008 doesn’t justify this type of dog whistle politics (to borrow a term from Stacy) and if you made the CHOICE to spend 2 plus years looking into this it’s on you, no one else. You’re not a victim. Everybody but the fringe right and hardcore Obama haters realized that if Obama had a short form certified by the state of Hawaii that meant that legally there had to be a valid long form. Maybe Obama should have released the long form just to appease all you people but maybe he didn’t want to dignify the whole “Obama is a Muslim Kenyan who shouldn’t be POTUS” nonsense? Just maybe? Maybe he was worried that once he released the long form he would then have to release other records relating to some other conspiracy theory?- like perhaps his college records because he’s now being called an affirmative action baby.

          Why do I have the feeling Carolyn that you believed some of the other conspiracies like the Whitey tape that never materialized- and if you didn’t, did you speak out against it on the blogs like some of us did?

          BTW, I got a lot of shit from Obots too but I certainly didn’t respond by feeding into every tinpot conspiracy theory out there. I also got treated like shit by many, many Hillary supporters (PUMAs) who acted just like Obots- I guess two wrongs make a right. If I spoke out against the stupidity of the Whitey tape, I was called an Obot, if I told people to not stoop to the low level of the Obama team, I was called an Obot. If I didn’t think he was a secret member of Hamas, I was called an Obot. Nice, really nice.

          BTW I take ZERO pleasure in defending this asshat Obama because I think he’s a shitty president and I thought he two cute by half (and a liar) as a candidate. But sometimes I just get sick of all of this. Some Hillary supporters seem to walk around with a cross and nails as though they are the only ones who were disappointed with the outcome of the primaries and they seem to think that if you don’t believe all the dirt about Obama then you must be some sort of closet Obot, or disloyal to Hillary. WRONG. None of this BS made Hillary look good.

          • Carolyn-Rodham permalink
            April 28, 2011 8:59 am

            So now I’m one of those die-hard, self-pitying, desperate, lunatic Clintonistas who embraced every crackpot theory about Obama and shouted down the truly enlightened who tried to disagree? And whose only interest in reading this blog is
            the Sunday photo bomb, because really, foreign policy
            is SUCH a bore?

            Just listen to yourselves Thain, and Sir John, (i’m NOT directing this at you, stacy, or your blog which I love – – you have always invited and tolerated divergent views). Just exactly who has been jumping to personal attacks in this thread? Where is YOUR own
            self-awareness? You have no concept of your own rigid, absolute certainty that you and you alone know the way, and no awareness of how you swoop in with personal attacks whenever someone dares to voice an opposing view.

            For the record, I don’t think I wrote one word suggesting I’m a “true” Hillary supporter or that you aren’t or that anyone else here is not because of your/their position on the challenges to Obama’s
            eligibility. But you seem to want to infer all sorts of things about me simply because I didn’t dismiss the BC controversy outright, without first exploring the facts for myself. Well, excuuuuuusssse ME!

    • jillforhill permalink
      April 27, 2011 11:25 pm

      I understand and agree with you. We are not racist or nutjobs. I as an American who is part Mexican and who lives in the southwest have to show my birth certificate to put gas. This could have been over in 2008,but no he gets to play the victim andcall everyone a racist.

      Hillary supporters are not self-righteous,we just have never forgot 2008. By the way we have moved on,but will never forget. To understand where Hillary supporters are coming from you need to go back to 2008. We were called racists and the most nastiest things.

      According to Ed Schultz in 2008 when he was on Larry King,the source for the vanity article on Bill was either Tom Daschle or John Kerry and his wife. They said Bill flirted with a woman in front of Chelsea and was cheating on Hillary when he was in Iowa. Kerry called Hillary and Bill pathological liars,but he begged and forced Bill to hold a rally for him in right after Bill had surgery. Tub of lard Kennedy begged Bill to keep searching for JFK Jr. even though that could have put the searchers and risk and Bill did. The rethugs than tore Bill a new one for that. Kennedy’s garbage friends in Game Change were still calling Bill a racist.

      Hillary got called a racist because she called Obama out on his flyers in Ohio and believing that he could get republicans to work with him. Bill was told he should stay out of the race and not defend his wife because he was a former president. Obama supporters and operatives threatened Stephanie Tubbs and he pastor admitted it at her memorial.

      When people say if you disagree with Obama or don’t like/believe him you are RACIST, I take that with a grain of salt. Are some rethugs racist,yes(I know from personal experience), but most don’t like him because he has a D after his name. Calling Hillary and Bill a racist may have worked,but the rethugs will wear this as a badge of honor and will love it.

    • April 28, 2011 4:33 pm

      I don’t think we’re lumping everyone together. I was writing about “some people”, and I don’t like labels like xenophobic or racist or “birther”. But there are people who have shall we say issues. And ethnic diversity, especially in the president of their country, is hard for them to accept. People in the UK and the rest of Europe may be laughing at our birth controversy, but how many of those countries have elected a non-white president, eh? Even with our birth controversy, we still have made huge strides.

      btw, while I’m with Obama on this issue, I still won’t vote for him in 2012…

  14. stacyx permalink*
    April 28, 2011 1:45 am

    JillforHill says:

    Hillary supporters are not self-righteous,we just have never forgot 2008. By the way we have moved on,but will never forget. To understand where Hillary supporters are coming from you need to go back to 2008. We were called racists and the most nastiest things.

    Ummmm, I’m a Hillary supporter, as is everyone else on this thread, so I don’t think I or anyone else need to go back to 2008, nor do I need to be lectured about what “Hillary supporters” think or do b/c I was/am one- I just happen to have been a Hillary supporter during the campaign who did NOT buy into every last conspiracy theory- I guess that makes me not a “real” Hillary supporter or something. I had to put up with that BS a lot in 2008 onward. Some Hillary supporters act like no one else experienced the same thing they did in 2008.

    Also, it drives me crazy when people point out the obvious- that not all disagreement or dislike of Obama is based in racism. NO KIDDING! But that doesn’t mean that some of it isn’t. Again, no one here has ever claimed that all the people who oppose Obama are racists. Same thing goes for the birth certificate issue. In fact, as the people who visit this site regularly know, most of us are very critical of Barack Obama’s POLICIES both prior to being elected and even now. Also, almost all of us were hardcore Hillary supporters in 2008 so we’re well aware of went on and please don’t throw out the strawman argument that people are inferring that any disagreement with Obama must be racism- no one believes that here.

    One last thing-People have made clear here that not everyone interested in this issue is racist by all means, but feel free to continue to act like we called ALL of you racists- even though we didn’t. No one will admit the issue of the birth certificate was hijacked by people who are hardly credible and who do use thinly-veiled racism as a tactic. But I guess some here want to pretend we call EVERYONE interested in the birth certificate issue racists so they can feel wronged.

    I guess the next thing is someone will tell me the whole “Whitey Tape” controversy wasn’t racist (who here spoke out about that at the time? I did) or that the new call that Obama is an affirmative action baby attending the Ivies isn’t tinged with some racism? And I guess the “Obama is a closet Muslim” theme that is still rampant on many blogs like Hillbuzz and No Quarter and GOP sites isn’t Islamaphobic? Or perhaps tinged with some racism? The GOP often uses the Southern Strategy to scare white folks from voting democratic- does that mean ALL Republicans are racist? Of course not! But wouldn’t it be refreshing if the Republicans who AREN’T racist, would call out their fellow GOPers for using such a low-brow tactics?

    It really was a mistake putting this post up. And that’s entirely my fault- I blame no one but myself. It brings up all the bad blood of 2008 and ironically, not just between Obama supporters but between HILLARY SUPPORTERS. How self-defeating.

    Ok, that’s the last I am commenting on this because quite frankly, I’m fed up.

    The End.

    • Thain permalink
      April 28, 2011 7:20 am

      EXACTLY. How dare people assume that simply because we didn’t buy into this whole birth certificate nonsense, we somehow aren’t or weren’t Hillary supporters in 2008. WE WERE. So I think we understand what was going on in 2008 and we know what was going on on the blogs because WE WERE THERE.

      So would some of you please stop acting like the rest of us are morons or not quite as much of Hillary supporters as you are/were because it’s really annoying.

      Ok, I’m finally done. I’ve said my peace. I’m not responding any more because there is no point.

    • Tovah permalink
      April 28, 2011 8:44 am

      @Stacy- I largely agree. The 2008 primaries sadly resulted in a lot of bad blood not just between Obama and Hillary supporters but even among different Hillary supporters and I think the reaction here is part evidence of that.

      I made the mistake of watching the news last night- I jumped around to everything except Fox News, which I refuse to watch. Every single station led with the birth certificate issue and everyone is trying to keep it going. I agree with Stacy, this issue isn’t going away anytime soon. Already people are saying the BC is a fake or that he still doesn’t meet the definition of natural born citizen because of his father. Enough already!

      Trump is now trying to say that Obama should release his school records and I think that if some of the hard-core anti-Obama folks want to have some credibility they should really stop jumping on every conspiracy bandwagon. Everyone knows what Trump is really saying- Obama only got into Columbia and Harvard because of the color of his skin and sadly, that is a page right from the Southern Strategy- don’t bring up race directly but use code words and phrases that will be recognized by many people as saying that Obama took a place at an Ivy League school away from a more qualified White person.

      What’s even more disturbing is many liberals I know are liberal only to a p oint- they are liberal until they think that some Black person, or Hispanic person etc. beat out THEIR kid at any Ivy League school- then suddenly they are bemoaning quotas and the injustice of it all. Of course, it never occurred to these people that it’s totally racist to assume that Black people only got into a good school based on affirmative action and that it’s up to them to prove otherwise. It’s really a disgrace and yet I don’t hear too many people speaking out against it. This isn’t about whether you like Obama or not, it’s about calling out this nonsense because it makes us look bad as a country.

  15. Sir John permalink
    April 28, 2011 7:47 am

    Honestly Stacy I don’t know why you waste your time on this blog- you should be writing over at Foreign Policy or writing more at Taylor Marsh. Why get into this nonsense? Most the people who comment here don’t even seem all that interested in foreign policy but rather they just seem to want Hillary photos and little more. I don’t agree with your views sometimes but I do give you credit for being willing to allow different viewpoints. Most of the blogs that still cater to Hillary supporters scrub their comments and don’t tolerate any dissent. Same goes for the Obot blogs and it’s really tedious. People really aren’t very self aware are they? They complain about how the Obama campaign treated Hillary so badly and then they go and do the same thing and they rationalize. Wrong is wrong.

    • discourseincsharpminor permalink
      April 28, 2011 9:31 am

      I love the foreign policy stuff. I don’t comment on much because I don’t think I’m knowledgable enough, but I think it’s incredibly interesting. I also love the pictures. I’ll start by thanking you for that.

      I know this will offend some people, so I’ll make my points and then go away. These cries of victimization are getting tired. No one is getting cannonized as the patron saint of maligned voting blockes so, as far as I’m concerned, people should stop trying for the title. I’m not saying that Hillary supporters weren’t treated poorly. I’m saying that almost three years of “poor me” political activism chasing every conspiricy theory has little to do with loyality to Hillary and a lot more to do with just disliking Obama. That doesn’t make anyone a racist, but it puts these slighted Hillary supporters with anti-Obama tunnel vision in the company of racists and the more out there and fringe-ish these accusations gets, the closer the ratio between racists and those who are still wallowing in their victimhood becomes. Instead of finding a candidate to challenge Obama or doing something constructive in our political system which works, to a certain degree, on the therory of “don’t get mad, get even”, many of these individuals have been looking under every rock for anything “un-American” because questioning someone’s patriotism is easier than getting them on policy. If as much energy had been put into actual political action as was devoted to screaming about a birth certificate, far fewer people would be calling these people racists and such. They might even have more support by now if they’d been able to work past 2008 and toward 2012. There. I’m done.

  16. Thain permalink
    April 28, 2011 9:25 am

    @Carolyn- sorry, it was a mistake to even respond in this thread, I’m well aware of your views on the subject from the last time we discussed this. I said above that you were NOT a racist right winger but that the issue had been hijacked by a lot of people that were and a lot of people who still obsess over the BC don’t seem to want to acknowledge that- no one seemed to want to call out those people. I shouldn’t have generalized my experience with some dogmatic Hillary supporters in 2008 and beyond to you. That comment should have been directed at Jill, who seems to not realize most of us here ARE Hillary supporters and we all were there in 2008 experiencing the exact same thing.

    I just think this whole birther thing did a lot of damage to the political debate.

    I apologize for being intolerant.

    • Carolyn-Rodham permalink
      April 28, 2011 9:59 am

      Apology accepted. If Hamas and Fatah can shake hands, I guess you and I can.

      My last word on the subject:

      Did you see James Carville’s take on Obama’s release of the long form? Couldn’t tell if it was all tongue in cheek, but his theory was Obama did it precisely so Trump could then crow and his popularity grow, thus making him the (very beatable) front-runner for the Republican nomination in 2012!

      • rachel permalink
        April 28, 2011 11:26 am

        I don’t know Carolyn, with this republican field I would be surpised if they just said we will sit this one out. They are all clowns.

  17. Steve permalink
    April 28, 2011 12:20 pm

    I actually agree with this:

    Releasing the long form seems to have actually reinvigorated some of the most ardent birthers like Orly and the folks at the conspiracy pretend news site World Net Daily.

    Some in the conservative media are also quietly making it clear the birth certificate may not be legitimate by saying things like “purported long form” or Obama “claims is his birth certificate” or “born in the USA?”

    The folks who say it’s not going to die are right- no matter how much evidence is put forward people will just demand more because the people demanding the long form feel like they’ve achieved some great victory and that they have won this battle. So if Obama caves now, why not try for more records, more demands, more proof?

  18. jillforhill permalink
    April 28, 2011 12:26 pm

    In 2008 at the RBC meeting they gave Hillary’s votes and delegates to Obama. How is that democratic? They treated Hillary supporters like shit,but that is not the worse it was when they said it doesn’t matter that you voted for Hillary we need to please Obama supporters so you vote goes to Obama. When someone takes my vote and without my permission gives it to someone I think is a fool, I get ticked off. Wouldn’t you? The RBC had NO RIGHT to give Obama votes he DID NOT EARN.

    • Thain permalink
      April 28, 2011 12:35 pm

      @Jill- Who are you directing your comments to? Why do you insist on talking to us like we are morons and like we weren’t around in 2008? WE are all supporters of Hillary, we KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN 2008 because were were there. Did you even read what we said above about this? WE ALL AGREE, OBAMA WAS A TOTAL SHIT DURING THE PRIMARIES.

      You act like you are the only one here who supported Hillary in 2008 and it’s really annoying. As Stacy said in her comment to you above “Some Hillary supporters act like no one else experienced the same thing they did in 2008. “ So friggin’ true.

      Ok, now I’m really going to stop responding to this flame bait.

    • jeleanoro permalink
      April 28, 2011 1:37 pm

      I’m with you jillforhill, some of us can not forgive, forget, accept and defend Obama, under the circumstances of his so called Win!

      • Tovah permalink
        April 28, 2011 1:40 pm

        So two wrongs make a right? Then aren’t we no better than them (the Obots)?

  19. Seamus permalink
    April 28, 2011 2:12 pm

    Hey friends, it’s not to late to pre-order your very own copy of Jerome Corsi’s new book “Where’s the Birth Certificate?”

    No offense, but here in lovely Northern Ireland we think all you guys are a bit cranked over this whole issue. But we love you anyway! 🙂

    • Blakester permalink
      April 28, 2011 2:28 pm

      Jerome Corsi just said this:

      “Public pressure finally forced Obama to do what he did today. Now the game begins,” said Corsi. “Nixon thought he could stop the Watergate scandal from unfolding by releasing a few tapes. All that did was fuel the fire.”

      Thanks birthers! It’s never going to end. Three wars not counting Pakistan and Yemen, a crappy economy, people losing their homes left and right, unemployment through the roof and this is your big priority? Can you say mindless distraction? This is exactly what they did to Hillary and Bill. I know, maybe his birth certificate is buried with Vince Foster? Quick, lets go check!

      This is exactly why Obama didn’t release his long form because all it would do is start a whole new round of conspiracies. Have you heard the rollerball conspiracy floating around? Or that the BC is just a bad photo shop? Or that the doctor that signed the BC has the audacity to be DEAD and his wife is in the hawaii legislature, which of course means she’s part of the Grand Conspiracy!

      Some of you guys were totally wrong and instead of admitting it you just get on your high horse and claim you were morally justified and that you still are. Unbelievable.

    • discourseincsharpminor permalink
      April 28, 2011 5:21 pm

      Some on this side of he pond are in agreement with you, Seamus.

  20. Blakester permalink
    April 28, 2011 2:19 pm

    Oh yeah, this issue is really going away…NOT!

    Fox News now uses hate-monger Pam Geller as one of their go-to people on all things having to do with ‘dem evil Muslims. I guess that’s why they called her in yesterday to discuss the birth certificate because, you know, Obama being a Muslim and all.

    Maybe we should start calling them AfterBirthers?

  21. jillforhill permalink
    April 28, 2011 2:24 pm

    Seamus aka obot do you get tingley when obama speaks. Where is that hope and change you obots promised? How long is obama going to kiss republican ass,seamus?

    • Seamus permalink
      April 28, 2011 2:44 pm

      Wow, an Obot, huh? First of all, nothing I said was directed at you so I’m not really sure why you are so defensive. In fact, I was trying to inject some humor into this oh-so-serious conversation. Silly me I guess there is NOTHING funny about birth certificates! But I’ll admit here in Europe we think it’s pretty funny. Sorry.

      Also, I’m not American so I don’t vote in elections across the pond where you all are. I happen to think Obama’s a huge disappointment and as anyone who visits this site regularly knows I LOVE Hillary Clinton.! Woo hoo! She’s been amazing to Northern Ireland. I’ve always liked and supported her. It saddens me that I have to explain that, but these are sad times I guess.

      So, sister, in answer to your question, I don’t get tingly when Obama speaks. But if you are interested, I do get all tingly when I see William Wales and I am beyond distressed that he’s marrying Kate instead of me, because I look much, much better in royal blue than she does, but that’s a whole different story. I digress. But since you asked about my tinglyness I thought I’d share 🙂

      Man, if this is how you treat supporters of Hillary Clinton I can’t even imagine how you actually treat REAL Obots! Very scary!

      toodle doo

      ps. Stacy, don’t know how you do it day after day after day! But keep up the good work sister, you know I love you. I’ll come back when the people that never usually comment on this site leave, ok? Because they are kind of hostile.

      • Carolyn-Rodham permalink
        April 28, 2011 3:36 pm

        ” But if you are interested, I do get all tingly when I see William Wales and I am beyond distressed that he’s marrying Kate instead of me, because I look much, much better in royal blue than she does, but that’s a whole different story. I digress…”

        LOL! Best laugh of the day.
        Thanks Seamus – we’ll try to lighten up here

      • discourseincsharpminor permalink
        April 28, 2011 5:23 pm

        Seamus, you rock! Thank you for making me laugh.

    • Thain permalink
      April 29, 2011 10:09 am

      Seamus an Obot? Hahahahah! That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day! Seriously, what’s up with that? Is that what we do when we disagree with someone now? Just scream OBOT at them? Oh well, I guess it’s easier than articulating an actual argument. It’s all very 4th Grade.

      Anyhoo, onto more important things…

      Don’t despair over Wills Seamus- there’s always the spare, Prince Harry!

  22. jillforhill permalink
    April 28, 2011 2:47 pm

    Blakester- don’t compare what the rethugs did to the clintons to the child play obama is going thru. When he gets accused of rape then whine about your messiah obama.

  23. Blakester permalink
    April 28, 2011 3:27 pm

    Jill I hate to disappoint you but Obama certainly isnt my Messiah in fact I didn’t vote for the guy. I just happen to think the birther stuff is silly. But feel free to just scream “Obot” at anyone with whom you disagree and/or claim everyone worships Obama or gets all tingly or whatever it is you have been obsessively doing on this thread. Or you could just call us all poo poo heads or something.

  24. Seamus permalink
    April 29, 2011 7:27 am

    Jill, Jill, Jill- you are at it again! What is with this Obot, Messiah, tingle-talk? We’re all friends here! Why do you accuse a group of Hillary supporters of being secret Obots when you all could be off doing something much, much more important- like searching the internet for photos of William without Kate, preferably wearing a Speedo!

    Chop, chop!

    BTW, William’s married now. There’s always hope though. I could perhaps be a member of the Blues and the Royals? Or a Royal Page? It’s a time honored tradition that the Royals always have a little something, something on the side.

  25. SirJohn permalink
    April 29, 2011 12:02 pm

    Oh look, right wing media still trying to cast doubt on Bambi’s birth certificate. What a surprise!

    Fox News will try to keep this going as long as possible. These guys just can’t admit they were wrong so instead they go out and attack the people who thought the whole thing was a distraction right from the beginning. Great tactic.

    Anyone want to take bets on what the next big conspiracy will be?

    You gotta love Faux News. I bet they’ll start focusing more on Obama’s father and spread fears about his Kenyan influence.

    Remember when a Fox News graphic showed a map of the Middle East and they had the countries in the wrong place! HA! Of course these are the folks who champion every war in the region. Shouldn’t you at least know where countries ARE before you champion sending other people’s kids to go die in them? I think that should at least be a minimum requirement.

    • discourseincsharpminor permalink
      April 29, 2011 1:24 pm

      Next conspiracy – the dental records. 🙂

      • Tovah permalink
        April 29, 2011 2:44 pm

        Actually here are a few conspiracy theories that they are continuing to push. I really think those of us who oppose Obama’s policies should stick to making arguments about why we oppose his policies instead of coming up with elaborate tin foil hat theories.

        While of course not all birthers are/were racist I don’t know how we can ignore how SOME of them combine the whole Kenyan thing with theories that he really is a closet radical Muslim. That guy Dinesh D’Souza wrote that book about Obama which really plays up the influence that Obama’s Kenyan father may have had on him by saying Obama is a socialist, anti-colonialist (?) and probably Muslim. How in the world he comes up with this stuff is beyond me. Given that most Americans don’t know a thing about Islam and many people don’t even know any Muslims, I wouldn’t be surprised if some assume that all Muslims have dark skin. The Islamaphobia is just bizarre in how mainstream it has become.

        I think the next conspiracy that will continue to heat up is “Obama is a closet Muslim.” That’s always been out there but I think we’ll hear it more along with the rumors that he only got into Columbia because of affirmative action. Of course that’s a racially motivated charge.

  26. jillforhill permalink
    April 29, 2011 12:04 pm

    If you don’t like being called an obot,then don’t call everyone who disagrees with Obama a racist like his supporters do.

    • stacyx permalink*
      April 29, 2011 12:20 pm

      Jill, who are you directing that comment to?

      No one here that I see has called “everyone who disagrees with Obama a racist” and I really think it’s sort of off-putting to call Hillary supporters here Obots just because they may disagree with something someone said. To be honest, it’s the exact same thing ACTUAL Obots do, which is sort of ironic. If the Obots are known for being rather intolerant of opposing viewpoints, I’m not sure why any Hillary supporter would want to emulate that trait.

      And if you are talking to Seamus, there is absolutely NOTHING Seamus said that would earn him the label Obot. He was trying to inject some humor, which apparently was lost on some people. Perhaps we could take a step back and all lighten up a bit.

      While I don’t agree with every opinion on this thread, I think that some people were saying that the birth certificate issue was legitimate for a time but was eventually hijacked by the far right, some of whom were racist, but certainly not all. Unless you are one of those people on the far right, and I don’t think you are, I don’t know why you are so insistent on calling people an Obot or tantamount to an Obama worshipper (“Messiah” “do you get a tingle up your leg…” etc). I honestly just don’t get it.

      Have some people here made unfair generalizations about people who doubted Obama’s citizenship? Yes, and it’s not right. But for God’s sake then just say that instead of running around and angrily trying to lump everyone under the umbrella of hardcore Obama supporter when the fact is, most the people here (at least the ones who come to this site regularly) are NOT hardcore Obama supporters- far from it in fact.

      As I said above, it was a mistake to put this thread up, but I really didn’t expect to get a bunch of grief from fellow Hillary supporters but I have noticed that going way back to 2008, we’ve had a nasty tendency to “eat our own” so to speak, which is unbelievably self-defeating.

      Ok, I’m done on this thread- and I mean it this time ;). Onwards and upwards.

      • HillaryFan permalink
        April 29, 2011 12:35 pm

        I agree. I certainly don’t care for Obama but I also didn’t think the birth certificate issue had any real truth to it. Does that make me an Obama supporter? No. Do I hate Obama’s guts? No because that’s a waste of my time and energy. Do I think some of his supporters are are as annoying and sheep-like as Bush supporters were? Yes but that doesn’t mean we should act like them and just tear everyone apart who disagrees.

        I didn’t see anyone here say that EVERYBODY who disagrees with Obama is a racist. That’s silly. If any of the regulars said that they would by definition be calling THEMSELVES racist because all of us here have said over and over we disagree with a lot of what he does. The whole charge makes no sense but it seems like one or two people here seem to think that we are secret Obama supporters or something. It’s just weird.

        And of course our friend Seamus isn’t an Obot! That’s kind of funny actually 😉

    • Seamus permalink
      April 29, 2011 1:12 pm

      @Jill-I don’t understand what I did to evoke such a strong response from you. All I did was post a link to an upcoming book and it was all in good fun.

      You are raining on my wedding parade.

      • Thain permalink
        April 29, 2011 1:18 pm

        Seamus, don’t worry about it. Everyone here knows you didn’t say anything offensive. If anyone did, it was me, so I apologize. The response from Jill isn’t really rational and for some reason she just seems to want to paint everyone with whom she disagrees as an Obama supporter. No one said that people who disagree with Obama are racists. As HillaryFan said we’d basically be calling ourselves racist. This is like a flash from the past back in 2008 when everyone on the blogs were paranoid about Obots and Palinbots etc. I really don’t want to relive that.

  27. Bea permalink
    April 29, 2011 12:07 pm

    I dislike Obama almost as much as I disliked Bush, and that’s saying a lot. But even I know that this issue with his birth certificate is pure B.S. It was bound to backfire and make Obama appear to be the victim of a nutty fringe (that apparently now includes Trump too).

    • Thain permalink
      April 29, 2011 1:19 pm

      Totally agree. The issue got taken over by fringe elements and it sort of made everyone look bad.

  28. Carolyn-Rodham permalink
    April 29, 2011 5:22 pm

    If stacy gets a final word, then I do, too.

    I want to apologize to her, Thain, and perhaps others here. You were right. I was wrong.

    Until today, I thought it was unreasonable and sort of self-defeating for Obama to have withheld the long form for so long (since releasing it instantly put to rest any questions I had about whether he was a natural born citizen — actually, those were put to rest two weeks ago, when the DOH official in Hawaii said she’d seen the long form and it said he’d been born at a specific hospital, delivered by a specific doctor).

    What I was wrong about was that releasing the long form would put to rest all the other Obama obsessions. The opposite appears to be true — releasing the BC has had the same effect on birthers as blood in the water has on sharks. There’s an absolute feeding frenzy going on that is truly incredible to behold, and makes me ashamed to have been in any remote way associated with these people (even if my motives were different). The media would do well to stop covering the story. Talk about sharks in the water.

    Jill – I know where you’re coming from — the intolerance of “Obots” in 2008 was, well, intolerable! Oh, the hours I spent patiently trying to refute their ridiculous claims about Hillary or venturing to explain some of the reservations I had about Obama, only to be greeted by equally ugly attacks on me! But I do think people here understand that some of us who wanted to feel certain in our own minds about Obama’s eligibility for the office of POTUS were not motivated by racism or Islamophobia. Maybe things were put a little more strongly than was really necessary, but I honestly think nobody was calling you or me racist. They were just venturing the opinion that subterranean racism, Islamophobia, and other irrational /biases fears about the “Other” are motivating some unkown percentage of the birthers (whether the birthers are consciously aware of it or not).

    I guess if I were being totally honest with myself, I’d have to admit that my own motives in researching the BC question as vigorously as I did weren’t so pure. I don’t think it had anything to do with racism, or Islamophobia, but it was fueled by a seething hatred for Obama and what his staff and supporters did to the reputation of widely respected and admired woman with a long and distinguished career in public service who fought an historic campaign, was supported by 18 million voters, and came within a hair’s breadth of being the Democratic nominee. But I don’t think you’ll find anyone on this blog who wasn’t feeling something very similar — they just dealt with it differently. I wanted to destroy the guy, and I went right on hating him until he named Hillary as SOS, then I took a deep breath and decided to re-examine my blinding hatred, and amazingly enough (to me), I started to develop a grudging respect for the guy, and much as he has been a disappointment as President, I’m rooting for him to succeed because, geez, look at the alternative. I’m actually LESS angry at him now that many of the people on this blog. I’ve (gulp) donated money to his campaign and hope he wins. I don’t forgive his campaign staff the atrocities they committed in his name back in 2008 — like you, I’ll never forget — but looking back, I do think the intensity and depth of my anger was a little irrational.

    • Thain permalink
      April 29, 2011 7:35 pm

      You certainly don’t have to apologize to me. I made some generalizations that were unfair and lumped all the birth certificate people together- the nutters with the non-nutters together but honestly the people like Jerome Corsi got a lot more attention than the people like you that really just wanted to see the long form and be done with it.

      But the problem with some of the other people interested in this issue is that I think they had already decided that no matter what Obama put forward they were never going to buy it. Each time a new piece of evidence surfaced they came up with some far-fetched theory about why it wasn’t valid and some of them are never going to stop.

      That’s why I always thought Obama shouldn’t dignify it by releasing more stuff because I thought once he did it’s just going to embolden some people like that Orly woman because then they will just ask for more records and what’s the first thing they did? Say the long form was a fake and demand more proof. At a certain point these folks lose all credibility and what I don’t get is why some people- including on this thread (not you)- get so defensive when the hardcore conspiracy theorists are challenged? I mean, if I’m not a racist I certainly am not going to defend people on the fringe of politics because if I do then I lose all credibility.

      Contrary to what some people have asserted on this thread (again not you), NO ONE said that anyone that disagrees with Obama is racist. NO ONE. And so when someone comes along and claims that and starts calling people Obots and some kind of Obama worshiper I get pissed off! Didn’t even Hillary rise above it all during the campaign and refuse to dignify the charge that Obama was a Kenyan born closet Muslim? Of course they called her a racist anyway which was really a shitty dishonest thing to do but I think if Hillary doesn’t buy the BS then I’m not going to either!

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